Wednesday, May 7, 2008

The AT Wire Said It Best...

Buttonmashing? MMO Gamers’ Infinite Laziness

Now, he certainly rags on Keen a bit here, perhaps underservedly so as Keen's not the only person I've seen dismayed by Conan's rather active combat controls, but I can't help agreeing with the entirety of his post.

It seems that more than ever we MMOG players want the revolutionary, yet whenever we're given it (TR, AoC, Auto Assault) we simply say it's not how we pictured the revolution and we go back to playing WoW or EQ2 or LotRO... games that play the same old tune we've been hearing for the past 10 years. I wonder if when Warhammer comes out and we're treated to a game that plays exactly like the previous DIKU MMOGs, if we'll all call it revolutionary because of the Tome of Knowledge... essentially a massive collection of in-game achievements all the while dismissing those games that offer us new and exciting ways to play (Spellborn).

Not trying to spark a debate here, though I know it will, but do we even know what we want, or are we just never happy with what we're given?


Thallian said...

personally, I cant wait to try Spellborn since it has "new and exciting ways to play" according to you and also cuz it isn't super hyped (as far as I can tell). Hype actually turns me off to things :P (yes its opposite day in my world sometimes.)

Anonymous said...

I've recently been looking at Spellborn, mostly because AoC has selfishly demanded my attention, but I really need pay more attention.

Keen said...

I disagree with the entire article and not just because it misrepresents what I said entirely. AoC is not revolutionary. Neither was TR,or Auto Assault. None of these games have brought about change. They are very innovative because they are so radically different from their predecessors but nothing from these games will spark change in the industry -- in fact most games look back at AA and TR and think of what NOT to do.

That brings me to my next point. MMORPG players know EXACTLY what they want. MMORPG players are, in my opinion, the pickiest and most difficult to please video gamers out there.

Since I am admittedly a big fan of Warhammer Online I don't mind at all coming right out and saying that it probably won't be revolutionary either. WAR, like AoC and others, has plenty of innovative ideas but none of them are so different from the way mmorpgs have been designed that it would alter the course of future developments.

In the AT Wire article the statement is made: "MMO gamers are people who generally don’t enjoy playing their games"

Do you really agree with that Bildo? Earlier today you told me that AoC is the most FUN you've ever had in a mmorpg.

Bildo said...

Now, now don't go dragging me into your guys' fight.

I think by MMORPG players he means the folks who would classify themselves as mainly MMORPG players.

I'm an equal opportunity gamer. I'll play anything you stick in front me at least once.

And incidentally, AoC IS the most fun I've had playing an MMORPG, and in my book it's because of the "revolutionary" combat.

Anonymous said...

The whole 'revolutionary' thing is so hard to define, its silly to argue over.

Having listened to the podcast you guys did about AoC Keen, I do agree that your usage of button mashing was a bit off. Button mashing is used INSTEAD of hitting combos or pre-set moves, while still getting decent results. Flawed fighting game systems or characters, like Tekken's Eddy Gordo, are good examples of button mashing. SSB is also a rather 'mashy' game.

I think AT Wire was a bit off on his assessment that MMO players don't like games. I see how someone could come to that conclusion, but only if you don't actually understand MMOs. The driving factor in an MMO is character growth and world interaction, and not the actual gameplay to reach that growth. Just a different style, rather than a good/bad situation. Fighting games have great gameplay, but zero character growth, are fighting games better/worse games than MMOs? Nope, just a very different style.

Openedge1 said...

What defines an MMORPG player...
We need to look at the letters...
We know what MMO is...
But, lately I have seen many a site not throw the "RPG" part on the end...
What does this have to do with what is being said here...?
Is the fact that todays "MMO" players could care less about the RPG part anymore..
Where is the RPG in WoW, EQ2 or LOTRO?
Reading walls of text? RP at one of the Inn's? There is nothing really "interactive" about this...and the story is just half of the play.
AoC made some changes to try and put you more into a story like the Witcher or Neverwinter Nights...
But, this is the problem with todays "MMO" players.
Based on two conversations I heard...
#1. In general chat in EQ2 someone mentions how good the characters look in AoC and the total control you have over your looks..then another player chimes in.."What do I care what I look like..I just want to play"..."If I spend any time looking at my character, I might as well go watch TV.."
Huh? One of the reasons people pick up RPG's is the character, or the fact they are someone else...I can always remember drawing pictures of what my D&D character would look like...that is "Roleplay" "Roleplay" someone else...and looks will matter...I want to know what I look like in that world...and be what I want, and not a pre-made character..ala Halo and Master Chief...I do not "own" that look...someone else made it..
#2. While discussing open beta with a guild member, I ask him what he thinks so far..He loves the combat, character creation is good (thank god..)...but, the cutscenes are no good...they are not "Immersive"..
Uh...then what is immersion? Going to a guy, who gives you a wall of text, that you just click ok all the way through and accept your kill 10x quest?

This is the issue...A.D.D and O.C.D rules todays MMO's...and that is what most players end up being..
MUST get that next level, MUST get that new raid item....and I want to do this while watching a movie...(yea...I have two players in my guild that watch tv or movies while playing, and sometimes even fall asleep while playing..)

Now...lets define "Revolution"
*A drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving*
Which we have with AoC, we need to now watch what we do in combat, and can't watch TV anymore...oh my...and now our story in in the game...our RPG is back in our MMO...

Yea...AoC is revolutionary for that move alone..

DeusExMacina said...

I agree with Openedge1 100%. Its kind of nice to know that I am not the only one to miss the RPG part of MMORPGs.
But I have to say that I am a bit disappointed in the combat system I had expected it to be faster. More like Jedi Knight or The Witcher, this still feels to much like any other MMORPG to me. (I was also disappointed in EVE because I thought you could fly it like a simulator. So I guess that shoves how in touch whit reality I really am.)

Anonymous said...

I don't think the games you're listing are too revolutionary.

AoC's "real" combat was toned down significantly from what they described a couple years ago.

Tabula Rasa went through so many makeovers I didn't recognize what was eventually released at all. And I adore Richard Garriott. I'm convinced it's the game he settled for to carve a niche rather than what he truly wanted, but these days he's probably got outer space more on his mind and I don't blame him. =)

Auto Assault.. just ... wasn't.. fun.

As for next?

Gordon Walton talks so much about WoW I'm getting the feeling the BioWare MMO won't offer much that's new. Who knows tho, he's a good guy with a great head on his shoulders.

38 Studios? I dunno, more EQ fans eh? That makes me nervous.